ADV’s Ledford: “No market for B and C titles anymore”
Posted on May 31st, 2007 by CalAggie in Anime, NewsYesterday, ANN posted a two-page interview with John Ledford in which topics spanning the revival of their manga department, licensing, and the anime market in general. One thing I took note of when reading it was Ledford’s reference to A, B, and C ranked titles. First, he used the term referring to buying habits:
If there are 20 titles or a hundred, you’re only going to have 10 percent or 15 percent be considered marketable. A lot of stuff might be very oriented to the Japanese domestic market; other things might simply be just B or C grade titles in today’s market. They may have sold 5 years ago, but thanks to the download business, most people buy their A titles and they download their Bs and Cs. There is no market for B and C titles anymore.
A question later, he used it in discussing retail shelf space:
Five years ago, three years ago you could buy anything and almost anything would sell, not everything but almost. Now you have to be a sniper. You have to snipe the good titles, that’s all that will sell. Everything else, the stores don’t want it, the fans will download it.
…
There’s simply not enough shelf space and the product doesn’t turn fast enough. So I think that’s what you’re going to see. A much lower quantity of titles but you’ll see a better quality. Perhaps some silly company will put some Bs or Cs out there, but that’ll come back to them.
So, don’t be surprised if certain anime with little or no profit potential in America stays unlicensed for many years even though you REALLY want it to appear on Region 1 DVD.
When I win the lottery, I’ll put some of the money toward starting my own anime licensing business and form the “silly company” that Ledford referred to that produces B or C titles. Hopefully, the quality will be better than what Illumitoon first put out and maybe it’ll start out subbed-only with lower MSRPs to get people to buy the titles with less buzz. Oh well, it’s just a idea at the moment - I don’t even know what I’d call this fake business!
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I think that’s the way it should work especially with increasing competition between titles and distributors. The problem was that it wasn’t how it worked, rather.
That said, ADV is hardly a leader in the changing climate of US anime distribution today. They’ve cashed in when “anything would sell” and suffered accordingly to that. What Ledford describes is true enough, but it just means he’s probably blind to how to sell B or C titles.
For some reason, even thought I have thought for a while that the American manga is oversaturated, I have a hard time taking ADV seriously on this, seeing that they’ve not been that successful with their own business models.
I think it’s funny ADV practically admits to indiscriminate licensing during the boom–no wonder when the anime market matured (like all fast growing markets inevitably do) and growth leveled off they got caught with their pants down. Now they’re trying to blame fansubbers for their woes, but I think in the end they’re missing the obvious–just because the number of anime DVDs released has gone up from less than 100 in ‘99 to over 800 in ‘05 doesn’t mean my budget for buying anime got 8x bigger too. I buy about 20 DVDs a year–in ‘99, when I first bought a DVD player, that meant almost a fifth of everything released, but now it’s just a tiny fraction. Would I have bought El Hazard: The Alternative World today? Hell no, but back then there wasn’t as much choice and any anime on DVD was like gold. Given that, I don’t see how B and C titles could possibly keep up the sales numbers they had back when there was a lot less variety to choose from. I’ve got news for ADV–fansubbing could vanish from the face of the Earth tomorrow, and they’re not going to get people lining up around the block to buy Divergence Eve.
There are less popular titles I enjoy that I’m sad won’t be licensed any time soon, because for most people they fall in the B or C list, but that’s what happens with a mature market with a lot of variety on offer. Animeigo is a good example of how to successfully release those titles–I don’t see ADV being smart enough to make it work, but look at Animeigo getting out all 50 volumes of Urusei Yatsura, by offering sub-only DVDs in box sets with 5 discs at a time, and selling directly with preorders off their website. I wish more companies would do the same, but sadly for now the less popular stuff seems likely to never see the light of Region 1.
Blaming fans which “download” is the same schtick which suits in music industry are trying to pull. The real reason nothing sells is that ADV licenses crap for most part. Need I say “Samurai Gun”? I just looked over my collection, the ADV titles I have are: Azumanga Daioh, Dai-Guard, Excel Saga, Dragon Half. This is IT, no more ADV on all my shelves.
And what is A in his opinion, anyway? Mahoraba is not licensed yet for Pete’s sake. These people never know what is going to sell until they try, and actually promote the show.
To summarize, this sniping deal is total crock, he can’t snipe his own ass with a shotgun.
The real reason why we stopped buying crap is the raise of blog and other discussion fora where you can actually learn about a show before committing to it. We didn’t even have any magazines worth reading. So most people just came to stores and grabbed randomly.
Also, I don’t if I can generalize this just as recklessly, but I started to rent a lot more. Before, it was nearly impossible to rent anything, but now I just run a Neftlix DVD, see how mediocore it is, forget it.
If one doesn’t know how to release b or c titles you might just want to have a chat with the nice folks over at media blasters. They seem to do just that and are getting by nicely.
its funny how everyone comments what u wrote about even though thats what theyre suppose to do. its just that the voice thingy u got is a lot more cooler :D
I’ve had exactly the same thought - If I hit the lottery I’d start my own anime licensing company or open my own movie house.
While it’s true my limited dvd budget will go to A level titles like haruhi, air, and higurashi this year (maybe not so much higurashi but it’s definitely A class enjoyable), the only reason why I’ll spend it on those dvd’s was because I got a chance to watch them as fansubs.
Shows of lesser quality probably don’t deserve to be licensed. Niche titles might be considered B or C because of the lower demand but there is a market for them if the company is smart about it.
As for licensing costs from what I gather an American company has to pay X dollars to license it. Wouldn’t it be smarter instead to give the Japanese license holder x% of the sales. Therefore, not matter how well the show does in America the Japanese company made money on the show being shown in another market.
To those who enjoy the fact and are selfish, I find this a good piece of news. It lets fans see things for free in the states longer. I think a strong backbone in the anime fandom in America is not about the consumerism (though it’s a vital part to support the artists), but also the fairly easy to obtain distribution over the internet.
Though, yes, paying for anime is part of what keeps it going, but the more companies fail to notice and aggressively market, the more money I get to keep in my pocket.
Realize I look at this from the perspective of a Japanese anime consumer. I don’t have to pay for anime when I’m in Japan as I pay for anime here in the states. I watch anime on cable TV, and thus more-or-less free. The DVDs are nifty, and certainly a good investment for something I really like, but for most anime I’d sooner just pass it up and watch something I can watch for free (Commercials are a minor nuisance in my opinion).
Though, yes, while in America, this doesn’t quite work out the way I hope in terms of anime (I like subs, I like horrendously obscure personal dramas over popular shows, and I tend to have tastes that American tastes commonly do not reflect) and I have resorted to watching American programming more than anime itself, but I think this is a place where the community fills the niche if anything.
I’ll also add that Steelbound makes a brilliant point. I really am concerned with what all those Japanese publishers were thinking then they decided to start working on an American market.
I’m not sure about Japanese television, since the only Japanese television stations that I know of currently with English offices are Fuji TV, Nippon TV, and NHK; they all seem to not want to deal with broadcasting anime. Developing a dubbing studio, acquiring the air-time, and all that seems to be far too much of an investment. They also don’t really deal with all the DVD sales or anything. Pioneer (or whatever they changed their names to) did publish directly in America though, and I was happy to see them doing it Pan-pacifically. But as of late, I see more “Funimation” “ADV” and “4kids” than anything.
What puzzles me even more is the manga though. Kadokawa has its own publishing and translating house in New York for its text-based books. I seriously became puzzled when Viz (or was it Darkhorse?) started publishing them. I’m sure Kadokawa would have had the financial power to take it on, why did they just leave it in the hands of other people, creating messy contracts across different companies and alienating some works completely (such is the case of Shuei selling to DC the rights to Tenjo Tenge).
It’s interesting how every once in a while I get thoughtful comments so it would be a waster not to reply to them after forgetting to respond earlier.
omo: I’ve always thought that ADV had a certain style in terms of which shows they have brought to America. 4 of every 5 titles is marketed for action, pretty girls and/or sexiness. For a good example, look at the left sidebar ad for 009-1 and the quote from a review is “erotic” from Newtype USA (note, an arm of A.D. Vision).
I personally would consider Wandaba Style and Papuwa a lower-grade titles but I was impressed by Nerima Daikon Brothers so there are a couple surprises in their lower-profile titles.
nathan: Earlier in the interview, Ledford said that ADV Universe is doing well at the price point of $5 per episode, which he says was the lowest the licensors would allow.
suguru: While I was re-reading your comment, I was reminded of the long tail business strategy of selling less in volume across more titles. I suppose that could possibly work with licensing obscure titles that a dedicated number of people would likely buy but the upfront costs before the first disc goes on the shelf is a notable, unignorable risk.
Pete: I too root for Mahoraba to be licensed. About Netflix, I just finished a 2-week trial last week and thought it was okay. I would have seen more movies if I watched them quicker but I’m not sure I would pay for a monthly subscription.
Warpshadow: I should have mentioned Media Blasters in the post but forgot. AnimEigo is another small publisher worth mentioning.
kent: The only problem with odiogo so far is that I haven’t been able to get it to read below the fold.
steelbound: That is an interesting proposal in changing how licensing deals are arranged, moving from a lump sum to a percentage of sales. One sticking point, though, might be the Japanese studios still wanting some money upfront, which AFAIK goes toward making upcoming anime productions.
Chiaki: You win for longest comment! Seriously, it’s like a post of its own. Anyway, Kadokawa seems to be focusing more on anime releases in the US (e.g. FMP: Second Raid, Haruhi) than manga distribution at the moment although that might change in the future. Ask John answered the question of which Japanese companies failed in the past when distributing their own stuff so it’s worth reading for background history.
Regarding the free argument, I usually buy the DVDs when I can’t easily find a licensed series on cable. (In fact, I just bought stuff through RightStuf’s 25 for $100 sale…) Usually I don’t buy DVDs of stuff I’ve already seen unless I want to check out the dub on the first volume or if I really want to support an underrated show. I just did the first with my last two purchases but unfortunately I haven’t particularly utilized the second reason because of the cost. Pre-ordering saves me money but it also carries a level of uncertainity and anxiety for me.
Hmmm, reading Ask John, I realized just how the market was shaped in such a rapid way. I guess I was always a fan, and never noticed when Japanese Anime became “mainstream” to a profitable extent for direct release in America. I believe Pokemon was released in 98(?), and that was back when manga was as obscure as the rest of Asia. If I recall correctly, back then, pokemon was forced into Americanization to mesh with American children’s tastes. Onigiri were doughnuts, anything remotely Asian was bleached over. It was only recently, that people have really started getting into the main stream consumer attitudes of manga and “otaku” culture.
It’s only been VERY recent that we even saw the cultural profitability of something “Asian.” Naruto came out what? Just a little over 2 years ago? even less? Before then, ninjas were just a farfetched fantasy overplayed in stereotype like what people expect of pirates. What I mean to say was. The Japanese companies didn’t seem to read the needs of its consumers well enough, or failed to employ an aggressive promotion strategy. As I can see with Gorgo 13 released in 1986, they made something terribly unprofitable. Jacketed covers, full-color pages, and cheap prices may entice people today, but it wasn’t profitable back then. Cheap price = profitability in quantity. With such a small fandom American distributors took a course of building the fan base from the ground up.
Remember the older original translated mangas of Ah My Goddess, Ranma, and others? They cost $15-20! They cost that much becuase publishers knew that the manga market was very small, and access was very limited. Any manga fans that did want to buy manga were more than willing to shell out the high price, because it was better than nothing. As more people got into it, more companies came up to compete and cash in; alongside this, the more people that knew about it, the more people started to become inclined to buy anime goods as price became lower.
So in my opinion, if Japanese publishers want to infiltrate the market, now is the golden oppurtunity, before the English market corners Japanese manga, and sets their own standard for quality and pricing that the Japanese can’t beat (though it may even be a tad bit late now even). That’s just my opinion anyway.
I seriously drone on when it comes to this stuff >.>